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Hartford HealthCare Podcast
A Harsh Reality: Dr. James O'Dea on school shootings
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In this episode, Hartford HealthCare’s Steve Coates talks with Dr. James O’Dea, Vice President of Hartford HealthCare’s Behavioral Health Network, about how the past few years – living in a pandemic environment simmering with isolation and social disruption - is putting our youth under great stress – and potentially at great risk. Here’s Steve Coates.
Dr. O'Dea helps us to identify red flags we all need to be watching for.
Please check the links in this episode for important resources and support – for parents, for youth, and for anyone who may either feel at risk or know someone who might be.
Also, be sure to follow and share Hartford HealthCare’s podcast for more episodes on a wide range of health topics. Just search “Hartford HealthCare” on your favorite platform.
Related article:
These Red flags Missed Prior to Michigan School Shooting
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SPEAKER_02Okay. I'll go back to the common phrase if you if you see something, say something. That's an appeal, of course, to other young people. If you care about somebody and you think they're going through a bad time, tell an adult and ask for help. The truth is we need to focus on our youth and identify people early on that are going through a struggle who would benefit from care and treatment. These are very treatable conditions.
SPEAKER_00In the days and hours leading up to the November 30th mass shooting at Oxford High School in Michigan, a chilling series of events underscored the need for better screening for mental illness. Welcome to the Hartford Healthcare podcast. In this episode, Steve Coates talks with Dr. James O'Day. He's vice president of Hartford Healthcare's Behavioral Health Network. Dr. O'Day really helps us understand how the past few years of living in a pandemic environment, simmering with isolation and social disruption, has really put our youth under a lot of stress and potentially at great risk. This is a must-hair episode with parents and students and educators because Dr. O'Day helps us identify some red flags we should all be on the lookout for that might indicate a problem, and even helps us understand some of the harsh realities that we all need to come to terms with now. Here's Steve Coates.
SPEAKER_01Another school shooting, a mass shooting in Michigan. I think we are over 500 for the year now in the United States as far as mass shootings go. The focus, some of the focus now talking about untreated mental illness each time we have one of these shootings. Dr. O'Day, are we moving the needle in this area?
SPEAKER_02Well, first off, Steve, this is uh yet another very, very tragic day in this country where we've lost young people in a way that, and and this becomes frighteningly common that that we have this intersection of uh availability of firearms that are poorly protected. And you know, we read in the newspaper about yet one more you know shooting that involves young people. And this circumstance in Michigan is is no less or no more tragic than all the other circumstances that have happened uh before. And I do think that there are some common uh issues. I mean, one of the things that we have to face right now is our country is under great stress. Like we've gone through over the course of the last couple of years just a devastating pandemic. We've also had, frankly, a reawakening of social justice issues that have simmered below the surface that actually rose to visibility due to the many losses, best characterized, of course, by George Floyd's murder. But there were no shortage of other people that were raising and talking about this issue. So it's it's a twindemic, it's it's multiple issues that are coalescing into this place right now where we're under great stress and turmoil, and and then you see an event like what happened here recently.
SPEAKER_01For those of us who uh grew up in the 70s or 80s, we may say we we didn't see this back then. Is this a situation where we just weren't paying attention?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I you know it's it's it's hard for me to kind of go back and look at those days. What's right in front of us right now is we have an epidemic or a pandemic of mental health issues. None of us should be surprised that we think about the social disruption that has happened over the last couple of years in terms of youth not being able to socialize in that the way that they are developmentally supposed to be socializing, the stress on parents, the stress on translating entirely or transforming work and how we work at home while we're also trying to raise our kids over Zoom and classrooms and those kind of things. So I don't think we have to look backward. I think we have to face what is in front of us right now. And what is in front of us, what is in front of us right now is a similar pandemic or epidemic of mental health stress, mental health issues in our youth in a system that has been underfunded and under-resourced for decades.
SPEAKER_01Can the gun debate, whether you're pro or against, can it coexist with the debate about the need for more treatment and access for mental illness? Can those two things be argued at the same time and can we make progress with that?
SPEAKER_02Well, so there's a there's a lot of smart people that will debate the gun rights side of this on either side of the fence. And I have a lot of expertise in mental health and in healthcare. I don't pretend to have that expertise. So the good news is I don't have to enjoy that conversation. What I can say is that an underfunded system, mental health concerns, has consequences. And leaving aside just mental health specifically, here's what we know about healthcare. Early screening works, right? You want to talk about that with colon cancer or breast cancer. Everybody seems to subscribe perfectly easily that early screening for conditions like breast cancer with screening mammography or colon cancer or other kinds of screenings, the literature is absolutely clear. And frankly, there's very little debate about it on either side of any political argument. That if you identify medical conditions earlier, the outcomes are better. It gives you better options for treatment, it gives you more options to pursue care and treatment, and the medical outcomes of morbidity and mortality are better. So that is holds true for mental health issues as well. So the good news is you don't have to actually get into a polarized argument about guns. You can just say, should we do a better job with screening for people that have mental health issues earlier so that we can provide better care and treatment? Almost everybody's gonna say yes to that.
SPEAKER_01With the latest shooting in Michigan, we did see that there was some identification of problems with this teen inside the school. So maybe there's some access inside the school for screening and identification. But what out what about outside of school? Is there an access issue for parents and teens or children seeking mental health care?
SPEAKER_02Well, yes, there's an access issue, but it it actually you're um inappropriately optimistic about what's happening in the school settings. Our schools are woefully, woefully underprepared to be able to identify the youth in the school settings that genuinely need care and treatment. And certainly that would be one of the places that we would be able to identify those issues and then make sure if there's a way for us to get that support through their local pediatrician office or through an outpatient mental health clinic or more intensive services, you know, that is the trajectory that we would find. I think one of the other things, Steve, that we're finding right now is, you know, schools were a place where people would be identified as having issues. And so when we spent the last year and a half with kids sitting in a living room or sitting at the kitchen table trying to learn over some electronic device, we also lost the visibility to what is a key part of the mental health system, which is teachers saying, I've got some kids that are going through a tough patch. And I'm gonna raise them up to the concern of their parents and to the guidance staff and others. We've we've lost that visibility uh for in-classroom identification. And now that more kids are coming back into class, we are woefully under-supported with guidance staff and and clinical staff in our school settings to be that first point of contact.
SPEAKER_01What are some signs that a person that may be struggling may be inclined to violence?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I mean, there's there's no one point, but I do think that this is one of those. I'll go back to the common phrase if you if you see something, say something. If you're concerned enough that it's kind of renting space in your head, bring it forward. That's an appeal, of course, to other young people. If you care about somebody and you think they're going through a bad time, tell an adult and ask for help. I I do think there are some very common things that we look for, of course. You know, the one that we would all talk about is um market change in behaviors. Like when there's a marked change in someone's presentation, somebody who used to be well-kempt comes in unshowered and not looking together, that would raise concern. When somebody is used to be performing at a certain academic level and you see a market change in their academic performance, that reflects a change. So any change in the way that a young person presents themselves in their regular order of business should be something that would be registered and say, I should probably say something about this. The other part of it is some of this stuff becomes much more overt. There are young people who are specifically posting things in social media that are filled with violent content. That's not good. And so when you begin to see patterns of behavior where somebody's engaging in whatever they're posting on Snapchat or Instagram or on Facebook or the various social media platforms that begin to become unnerving, it's important to say something about that because those potentially could be those early warning signs that things are heading in the wrong direction. And how do we get them back in the right direction?
SPEAKER_01Generally, the profile, too, of of the shooters, the school shooters, are boys. Is there a reason for that?
SPEAKER_02I I think um again, this would get us probably down a rabbit hole or that that it would be difficult to come back from. So I'm gonna I'm gonna continue to keep these because I would be just as concerned about changes in behavior with with young women. And and it may present itself, the behavioral presentation may be different. You can say, you know, boys in firearms, and you can talk about girls and eating disorders. The truth is we need to focus on our youth and identify people early on that are going through a struggle, and we can't only look at the most dramatic examples as a way to illustrate what we should do. We're in the midst of an epidemic, and we should be identifying people early on who would benefit from care and treatment. Let me let me also say, Stephen, I think this is really important. These are very treatable conditions. I think one of the things that I feel heartened by is that the fact is the phone is ringing off the hook because there is a greater recognition that mental health issues are no different than other kinds of health care issues, hypertension, diabetes, mental health conditions are biological conditions, medical disorders that are very responsive to care and treatment. And when people get care and treatment, the vast majority get better. And so early identification, early screening will absolutely make a difference for the vast majority of people who are suffering unnecessarily.
SPEAKER_01Dr. Jim O'Day, thanks for your time.
SPEAKER_02You're welcome, Stephen.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Steve Coates and Dr. O'Day, please check the links in this episode for important resources and support for parents, for youth, and for anyone who may either feel at risk or know someone who might be. Also, be sure to follow and share Hartford Healthcare's podcast for more episodes on a wide range of health topics. Just search Hartford Healthcare on your favorite platform. For Hartford Healthcare, I'm Enron DePierre. Thanks for listening.