Hartford HealthCare Podcast
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Hartford HealthCare Podcast
Bridging the generation gap: Episode 3 Covid Impact with Keith Grant, APRN
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Welcome to a special 3-part series of Hartford HealthCare's More Life that will focus on how different generations engage on various healthcare topics.
Hosted by Tina Varona, director of Media Relations on the Hartford HealthCare content strategy team, and administrative graduate intern Levell Williams - a health equity scholar at the Brown University School of Public Health in Rhode Island.
The idea behind the series: identify the “generation gap” in various health-related topics while Tina and Levell share their own, unique experiences representing Generation X and Gen Z.
The goal: to “bridge that gap” through a lively discussion with Hartford HealthCare experts to educate audience members of all age groups.
In episode three, Tina and Levell get very honest about the physical, emotional and social generation gap when it comes to COVID-19. Their guest, Keith Grant, APRN, is Senior System Director of Infection Prevention for Hartford HealthCare and has been on the front line, helping every generation navigate this pandemic from the start.
Listen to the other episodes in this series:
Episode 1 with Dr. Laura Saunders
Episode 2 with Dr. Godfrey Pearlson
Watch: Keith Grant featured on NBC CT
Keith Grant Recognized as Local Hero for All, including People of Color
The way that we responded when the pandemic occurred back in March of 2020 to just go ahead and and do our own thing. Yes, I want to get my vaccine, I want to wear my mask, but whether I do that or I don't, I'm gonna find myself at the social event that I want to be at because I'm trying to live my life. I'm in my you know in my late teens or in my twenties. I think maybe that's a difference in the mindset between generations.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to More Life and a special three-part series that will focus on how members of different generations are engaging about various healthcare topics. Hosting this series is Hartford Healthcare Tina Verona, Director of Media Relations on the Content Strategy Team, and administrative graduate intern Lavelle Williams, a health equity scholar at the Brown University School of Public Health in Rhode Island. The idea behind this special podcast series is to help identify the generation gap when it comes to various health-related topics. While Tina and Lavelle share their own unique experience representing Generation X and Gen Z. The goal? In episode three, Tina and Lavelle get very honest about the physical, emotional, and social generation gap when it comes to COVID-19. Their guest, Keith Grant, is a senior assistant director of infection prevention for Hartford Healthcare and has been on the front line helping every generation navigate this pandemic from the start. Here's Tina, Lavelle, and Keith.
SPEAKER_02In June 2021, the National Library of Medicine reported that COVID-19 vaccines should anticipate hesitation and target concerns, especially among younger adults. 26% in January of 2021 to 18% in March of 2021. As well as Generation Z, black populations in the U.S. saw a decrease in vaccine hesitancy of 34% in January of 2021 to 18% in March of 2021. So quite a bit of shifting we see there, Tina.
SPEAKER_01Quite a bit of shifting, except we're not seeing so much of a shift among my generation, which is Generation X, the in terms of vaccine hesitancy compared to younger adults. I think my generation, you know, looking back on the pandemic Level, we were, I think, more prepared to cope with the isolation of social distancing and quarantining because we're sort of the latchkey generation. I remember growing up coming home from school and doing my homework by myself if my parents weren't around. So we were sort of used to that. So I think the isolation, the social distancing for us really wasn't there. But I also think on the flip side of it, we are sort of feeling the strain being sort of that sandwich generation because we're caring for our kids, not only that, but for our older adults, for our parents as well. So I think we felt the strain in terms of caring for our children, but caring for our parents as well.
SPEAKER_02You know, most definitely. And when you bring that up, it reminds me of sort of the the difference between that life situation and where most people my age are. You know, there are a handful of people my age, or perhaps even more than a handful, who have kids of their own, but we all have still, you know, we're we're still navigating this area of uh a time where our lives are truly focused on ourselves. And I think maybe that's what has contributed to the the way that we responded when the pandemic occurred back in March of 2020. You know, I I think that it was much easier for us, perhaps in comparison to members of Gen X, like you were saying, to just go ahead and do our own thing. Yes, you know, I I want to get my vaccine, I want to wear my mask, but whether I do that or I don't, I'm gonna find myself at the social event that I want to be at because I'm trying to live my life. I'm in my, you know, in my late teens or in my twenties. And I think maybe that's a difference in the mindset between the generations.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think there's the there lies in the gap because for me, it was I I want to get my vaccine, even though I didn't really want to get the vaccine, but I knew I had to get the vaccine if I wanted to be around my parents, or if I wanted to be around my family. So I was thinking about my parents. I want to bring in our expert today, who's been so kind enough to join us, Keith Grant, APRN and Senior System Director of Infectious Diseases at Hartford Healthcare. Keith, thank you so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely, guys. Thank you for having me, Lavelle and Tina. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01So let's talk about that, the the gap here. Um, you know, you've heard sort of Lavelle's take, you've you've heard my take. What are your thoughts on sort of the different outlooks? And of course, we're in two different stages of our lives, but what are your thoughts on the generational gap that we saw during COVID in terms of how we viewed vaccine hesitancy and so forth?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, it is definitely the dynamism of COVID-19 for decades to come will have us having discussions on many different topics as to how COVID-19 impacted that or how this particular element impacted COVID-19, the management of COVID-19. I think none so different as to the current discussion about generational differences and how we um view, manage, accepted, appreciated and work with COVID-19. Uh, you know, there's a few things from my perspective. So one of the data points that we were very keen on looking at is the impact on it from like a mortality perspective, right? And I think that helped to guide a lot of people. So over 65 individuals that are over 65 very early seem to be impacted with far more severe. Um, they seem to be impacted from a mortality perspective in greater numbers. So I think there is some sense of I need to do this or else I might die in that generational set. Um, as well as there's a level of, I've been through so much. Um, you know, a lot of these individuals, when we talk about the baby boomer generation, there's a lot of, there's many things that I've survived and been through that this is one more thing in the chain of life that might not be impacting me as much. This is people might be making a bigger deal than anything else, right? And then when you listen to what Lavelle talked about before, was how much is this impacting me as I'm growing into the person I'm trying to be? How much is this impacting me from a social well-being perspective or social life perspective? Um, many other groups or the older group can basically be saying, oh, that that's pretty selfish. Like we should be looking at it as to how we can, you know, help everyone and be more focused on the other people that I need to take care of and the people that are there to take care of me as well. So it's been very, very interesting. And I think for many years to come, we're gonna be having this wonderful discussion.
SPEAKER_02Definitely. And you touched quite a bit on the vaccines uh between generations, the efficacy of the vaccines. Not only did we see the rollout of multiple vaccines at a fast rate, you know, there was so much discussion about whether or not to get the vaccines, but now we've come to a point in the pandemic, two plus years in, where we see that the vaccines are not actually the end-all be-all of wellness. Can you speak on the uh one, the importance of boosters, and two, uh the potential for over-exaggerating the efficacy of vaccines? Have we made them look like too much of a panacea?
SPEAKER_04I think that's a very, very good point. Very good question. So, efficacy where efficacy is concerned. So we continue to see um impact off the vaccine, which we've suspected from day one, to be honest with you. I think what we've also appreciated with some degree of expectation, with a huge bigger degree of optimism that we might not see is um uh uh variations and mutations in the actual disease itself that might be impacting some part of the efficacy of the vaccine itself. Um, however, that being said, I think if we think, you know, we talked about generational impact, there's people that are who will gravitate towards the vaccine because it's in their mind, it's a life or debt discussion. So it's a different perspective, I believe, from the individuals, you know, within the scope, within the time frame of the pandemic, we've never really seen individuals that are, you know, your your Gen X, Gen X's and so forth, Gen Z drastically impacted by this, but to be impacted through like not being able to socialize or and so forth. So I think from a hesitancy perspective, there's definitely a different approach from different age groups. Um, from an efficacy perspective, in where the vaccine is concerned, it's really not as controversial as it as as as a lot of people might think. It's a very simple construct. A vaccine introduces antibodies or or prompts the introduction of antibodies, antibodies as all vaccine does, um, work to protect you against the an incoming um virus. And unfortunately, some viruses mutate, or most, if not all viruses mutate, and we're dealing with some of those mutations right now. So still very effective. Views on the vaccine, I think, still vastly different between generations.
SPEAKER_01And and further exploring and highlighting that gap, while you talk about those 65 and older facing the greatest risk from coronavirus, again, you know, Gen Xers, we're just kind of in the middle here. You know, we're sort of, again, that that sandwich generation, if you will, but we are worried, I think, more of the underlying conditions, like if we have asthma or heart conditions or diabetes or liver disease, if we're immunocompromised, that we're more vulnerable to serious complications from COVID-19.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. And you know, a lot of that has to do with like over the last, I'd say, 10 years or so, health systems have really tried to focus on how much I can ensure that not only are you living longer, but you're able to do that as a really good quality of life. So there's a lot of people that are aware of where they are from a health perspective. So I know I am healthy because I'm doing this as frequently as I should, or I'm eating this as much as I could, or I'm exercising and running as much as I could. So they're aware of the potential deficiencies, and um uh they're aware of whatever dent or opportunity they might have, might have in that health armor. And that deficiency might be chronic lung disease, it might be diabetes, it might be um some other disease process that when we look at the data having COVID-19 surely has a significant impact and potentially could be the element that creates that um that increase in mortality.
SPEAKER_01You know, and I think from Lavelle was talking about, I'm sort of, you know, starting to live my life. I think the Gen Zers have more of an individualistic attitude toward this, whereas the Gen Xers, we're all about our children and our parents, but we're also about ourselves in terms of being immunocompromised. So I think we're not individual as maybe the Gen Zers are. We are about ourselves, but we're also about others as well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and it's it's it's very difficult for that generation because I and I think, you know, I understand we talk a lot about your baby boomers and over 65, and the critical, you know, if you look at a mortality rate perspective, the impact that it has. But you're talking about Tina, a generation that has three people to worry about, right? So you have and many times three different generations. So you have your perspective and your generation, the resistance from your generation, or the acceptance from your generation to worry about. Then you have a potentially a millennial Gen Z kid that you have to worry about or child that you have to worry about, and you have a baby boomer parent that you have to worry about, all in many cases having three completely different perspectives. However, at the same time, you're having to manage this. And we see that we've seen that so much, um, not just with COVID-19, but with health, um, health and health wellness across the country, certainly across HC. And that's something that, you know, I we work very closely with our media team, Tina, I've been a key key part of that during COVID-19 to try to address and try to have messaging that's going across the generations, but appreciating that there might be a single key person within that community, within that family that is moving this message across.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and and you know, to the point of sort of perceived harm that you were alluding to, I think that something that occurs to me is the discussion around long COVID, as it's being called, those prolonged uh you know complications from having COVID at some point in the past, as well as the new variants, the ability to contract COVID more than once, and then to add on top of that, new infectious diseases such as what we're seeing in monkeypox. Um, those are some of the things that me as a Gen Zer, I sometimes find increase my concern and make me say, okay, well, you know, it still looks like there is a lot of danger. Let me go ahead and be vaccinated, let me go ahead and mask up. Can you speak to the legitimacy of those concerns? How important is it to consider long COVID, uh other infectious diseases, and so on and so forth?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I think the two things from that. So there's long COVID, right? And there's a new concept, is your long commitment to preventing COVID-19, right? And long COVID, obviously, you've been exposed, and there's residue, a residual effect from a health perspective that some individuals suffer, unfortunately, way after having COVID-19, to include, you know, brain fog that includes like lack of concentration, loss of memory, and so forth. And some individuals have a lot of issues from respiratory, respiratory issues, um, decreased lung capacity. Um, I can run five miles before, and now I can only run a mile without being extremely tired. Some individuals maintain high level of fatigue, there's headache involved, and so forth. And that long COVID. And we we have a um clinic uh clinic process now in the health system that's very focused on helping individuals getting over that at Hartford Healthcare. But the other part I really want to, I think you bring up and for us to really focus on is it is a very, it's a long-term commitment to ensure that I'm living well and safe enough to prevent me from getting COVID-19. And I think your generation has certainly, and you can see it now even more than ever, has certainly appreciated the fact that they never had the opportunity for 24 months, two over two years, to go to a ball game and enjoy themselves. And they're figuring out how to do that now. But also, if I get ill, it's my responsibility not to expose my friends, but also I can realize that, you know, um, I need to weird appropriate PPE in order to protect myself and my friends, but also my social growth, my social well-being, with my ability to socialize in certain settings, such as a ball game.
SPEAKER_01And you know, Keith, we growing up, we had the AIDS epidemic, there was the flu, but we never really had anything like what we're seeing today. So this generation has COVID. COVID's here to stay. We're seeing other variants of it. It's a generation that is going to have to live, I guess, with infectious diseases, because you know, you often hear is that they're going to just keep coming. Is that something that this generation is going to have to learn to live with more so than we did as Gen Xers growing up?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so that you know, Tina, that's a really good question. And the scientific part of me says it's hard to not say yes to this for a number of reasons. So it's a few things that are happening. So, one, we're more astute from a healthcare from a clinical diagnostic perspective. Um, so we're able to detect things much quicker. We're able to actually accurately detect probably diseases we probably wouldn't have been able to just a few years ago. Um, additionally, there's the globalization and the impact of globalization is immense, and we're still trying to figure that out and figure a way around that by implementing travel screens and so forth, um, which is an interesting concept to see how we manage that in the years and years to come. The other thing is that term endemic, like, for example, we talk about monkeypox and what is it truly right now? Like, highest case of monkeypox in this country before, I believe, is um less than 80, 75, 78 or so forth. At this point in time, we have a significant thousands of patients that have monkeypox. So, at what point in time, for example, COVID-19, do we consider it endemic? And the next disease that comes across, at what point in time do we see that disease detected, identified, and appreciate how it's going to fit into this conundrum of um how do I live my life safely with these disease processes, right? Um I from a science perspective, I think this is, I hate to say the new norm. Um, but I think the more advanced we get, the more we're gonna be detecting these diseases. The more we travel and integrate, the more we're going to be seeing these diseases. The more, another thing to be considered, the more we use and overuse and misuse antibiotics, the more we're gonna see resistant diseases such as CRE. Um, so unfortunately, um we're a victim of our own advancement in healthcare, in science, but we're also um seeing much changes within the environment. People talk about, you know, global warming or not global warming or whatever the case is. There's been changes in temperatures in areas in the world that has precipitated um the movement of certain organisms, and we're also living with that as well. So I don't we're we're barely the tip of the iceberg, I believe, for this phenomenon. Um, you know, and it's it's we the best we can hope for is the advancements in science also include the advancement and availability of such things such as vaccines.
SPEAKER_02You know, as we're speaking about this age, if you will, of endemic awareness, one thing that comes to mind is the way that we actually interact with one another in the midst of an awareness of infectious diseases. Stigma plays a large part of how we interact with one another. We saw that at the beginning of the COVID-19 uh pandemic, especially, you know, and even now there's so much precontemplation that happens when you see someone wearing a mask. Um, it is be a mask has become indicative of much more than simply protecting yourself from airborne particles. For some, it indicates, you know, a political view or several other things. And that's just one example. Can you speak at all to what research has shown about the development of how we handle stigma as it surrounds uh infectious diseases?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's it's challenging and I think it's ever shifting. I do think in the beginning of the pandemic, it was it's you would get different viewpoints from the same people as you would right now. I think even my viewpoint have changed a few times in just appreciating um more sciences. Um I I think that is a such a challenging thing for us as clinicians that we're purely we or our jobs are purely about you know the body and the biochemistry and so forth. But there's so much going on from a physical, from a mental health perspective as well. Um and we've we've been blessed with having way more information than any generation ever. Like in this time, the information that we have available is immense and that has a significant impact. And information can be polarized and it can be delivered in in a polarized way, and it certainly have an impact. What I will say is that um although we've seen changes in one, the delivery of message, two the acceptance of message, we don't we've surely um understand the difference in a political stance on such a thing as mask and so forth. The science is still remains very, very clear and hasn't really changed. A person who wears a mask. In many situations, um is significantly more protected than the person who chooses not to. This is not a new process or new phenomenon. There's many countries across the world that at particular times and in um certain seasons, they choose to wear masks for a number of reasons. Here's countries that um because of the air pollution, will you wear a mask to prevent things such as asthma and other chronic lung diseases? So masking itself has become, you're right, the symbolism of certain political views. And as much as much have changed, that's science as to can it really protect me? That science I don't believe will change.
SPEAKER_01You know, it I often think about this and and have discussions with with my peers about this, but if COVID-19 happened back when we were growing up, you know, how what would that look like? How different would it be? And we often say that, you know, we probably would have gotten the vaccines and we wouldn't have, you know, really thought anything more about it. But with today's generation, with the Gen Zers, it's a very independent generation, very opinionated. They're more part of the political landscape, they're very much more involved than I think we were when we were growing up. So I often think about how it would differ if COVID-19 happened when we were growing up. And the two are very, very different in terms of the generational approach to it. And of course, now we're at different stages of our lives. We're not in that 20-year-old, 25-year-old age group anymore, so it's very different. And a lot of maybe that hesitancy comes from the times that we're living in and um what we're surrounded by. And I guess, you know, Lavelle, you talked about the stigma. But Keith, how do we sort of combat the vaccine hesitancy among the young adults? I mean, do we turn towards social media? Do we meet them where they are? How do we how do we sort of combat the hesitancy that we're seeing rising among this generation?
SPEAKER_04So it's interesting that for me it's a great question, but it's interesting for me is that the person asking the question is one of my primary partners in figuring this out over the last two years, right? So, you know, Tina, and you know, like we we went into this with a level of bravado, and you know, we're we're a great health system, and we're we collaborate very closely with health systems such as Yale, and we have a great impact on many disease processes. So we will know what we're doing, if not now, very, very quickly. So, and that's how we approached it. That being said, we also looked at how the community needs to be educated as quickly as possible, and as in, but then we were humbled by the fact that we also needed to be educated, and we also needed to gather information about a community that we just weren't getting to as much as we thought we would. And I think um how we handled it and how we will continue to handle it is we need to listen as much as possible, and we need to be humble with the ignorance of we're there's generations that will move beyond us, and there's generations that will stay you know behind us in many knowledge ways and uh in certain specific areas, and it's our job to try to figure out how to build, bridge continuously or continue to bridge that gap as a health system for our community because it's not a singular generation that lives in the community, is that a singular race, creed, or type of people is in multitude of people. And you know, one to me was still one of the high points of my existence is working with teams to try to figure this out. And if you look at the data point, I think we did an okay job in bridging many of those gaps and closing many of those uh doors on hesitancy and opening avenues of education and getting people to getting vaccinated and become advocates for dispersing. But yeah, it's it's a huge journey. It's not, it's we're not even close to being over. I mean, you talk about pandemics, there's still huge degree of health issues that exist within communities, such as such as Connecticut. Um, you know, diabetes, um, cardiovascular disease, there's many preventable deaths that happen every single day that needs, that has a lot to do with not being properly educated, not being pro having the proper access to care and so forth. And if you look at the the um numbers, when you think about from a generational perspective, um there's a big difference in where it's occurring and how it's occurring and what age group and what generation is happening too. So we still have a lot of work to do, but I think it's for us to, as big as we are, as advanced as we are, um, we have to be very cautious and to be humble in learning from people who might be difference, either whether it be age, creed, culture, wealth, or whatever.
SPEAKER_01And you know, while you say, you know, this was sort of a learning as you go along process, and Keith, you know, we you and I and and and the rest of the team, we were together early, early on in this, sort of trying to navigate through and learning as we went along. But very early on, we did notice the importance of reaching out and partnering, using our existing partnerships with local colleges through our campus care efforts like Quinnipiac, University of Hartford, and Trinity. And you personally and your team worked very closely with college administrators in providing information about the importance of testing and vaccines and and were there to sort of guide them on this journey in getting students educated and their parents as well. But early on, I mean, that was critical here in Connecticut in terms of getting to this population and working with the schools.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. And the funny thing is when we looked at what should happen from um teens and um older teens in colleges, we expected significant non-compliance. We expected um very early to have clusters and outbreaks. And we started having discussion with these students, and we realized that they were committed to one thing. They wanted to be back on campus, they wanted to learn, they wanted to have social experiences that are that truly defines the college experience. And that was their primary goal. And if that goal meant that in order for this to happen, I need to comply to this, and who would have thought, right? Kids deciding I will do this in order to stay in school and hang out with friends as safely as possible. And we had great response, great compliance, and amazingly. Um, you know, one of our schools, there's studies that's being done right now because they did an amazing job keep keeping these kids um safe. And I I gotta say, as much as they've implemented processes, but the kids did such a good job just living in that moment and appreciation appreciating what needs to be done to keep themselves safe and you know, their friends and family.
SPEAKER_02Yes, those are my peers. I'll go ahead and claim that one. Now at the top of the program, Tina mentioned that uh Gen X being the somewhat the sandwich generation, they uh, you know, when they were my age and younger, they had more experiences where they were, you know, home on their own, kind of having to deal with some similar conditions to what we see during the pandemic right now. While Generation Z has not had the same benefits of those kinds of experiences, we have had experiences like those that you just mentioned, where you know we we have made some beneficial choices in the midst of this pandemic. On our heels, we have Generation Alpha. These are kids that we see as our younger cousins, some of us that are children, um, kids that are in kindergarten and younger now, so to speak. What are some of the habits that Gen Zers such as myself should be striving toward upholding so that if the next pandemic, hopefully not, but if the next pandemic comes when Gen Alpha is 20 years old, they should be able to look at us and say, well, you know, Lavelle, he showed me how to operate in this particular way, and and that's something that can emulate.
SPEAKER_04I would say start from a place of humility and be humble. Um and there is a there, you know, there's a concept that because we've achieved much, you know, this country has been the generations before us have done a wonderful job to put us in a position of freedom and a lot of choices. Um that being said, some there's a lot of times that um the whoever is in charge or whoever, whatever generation is at the point wherein you're sitting at a president's position is a generation that decides what position or what direction we move in. So I would say start from a place of you know, like humility and be humble and gather information before any decision is made.
SPEAKER_01And you know, don't count us Gen Xers out yet, Lavelle, because you know, we're often that forgotten generation because we're we on so many levels, we're sort of the transitional generation, if you will. We it it's just a different time we've seen. But don't count us out here because I think we're very we're actually extremely influential because we sort of set the ground rules and the stage for our Gen Zers, who are our children, um, going forward. Because if we don't believe in the vaccines, that's going to be passed on to them as well as our older generation. So I think we sort of set that stage, Keith, in terms of our values and our beliefs that we pass along to our Gen Z children.
SPEAKER_04Listen, I think every single generation that has the ability to nurture has like, you know, Lavelle, you know, if you have a younger sibling, I'm sure you understand this, and younger people around you, we have a significant responsibility to ensure that whatever we're doing going forward. Um, Tina, you know, the personality and your ability to be humble and be caring and nurturing and ensure and be have a belief in your community, I'm sure have a lot to do with how you're cultivated by the generation before, as in your parents and so forth. So it is our responsibility, certain, certainly, to move that forward and again to learn from that and keep growing from that.
SPEAKER_01Well, Keith, we can't thank you enough. We've covered a tremendous amount of ground here, and and we talked about the generational shift, the gap, and we've sort of bridged that gap in the end, if you will, knowing the importance that we have on our generations and leading generations, up and coming generations to come. So we really thank you for sharing your time and of course your incredible knowledge and expertise in this area. We could not have made it through COVID-19 without you.
SPEAKER_04I I appreciate you guys. Um, thank you for having me and have a good day.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Keith.
unknownBye.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Tina, Lavelle, and Keith. Check the links in this episode's notes to learn more. And for the links in the other two episodes in this three-part series, bridging the generation gap. Be sure to follow more life to be notified each time a new episode drops.